Van Halen fans hate KISS.
That's really the line of demarcation, isn't it?
Those who thought Van Halen was great NEVER go back to being KISS fans, I personally don't like Van Halen and have never lost my love for KISS, but have noticed that nobody hates KISS more than a dedicated Halen fan.
It's funny that they are even compared, as musically, KISS's roots and the musical sweet spot is more comparable to the Proto-Punk-Glitter bands they came up on the NY scene with.
For some reason (I guess it's their own fault, for mis-marketing themselves as something they aren't) people always compare them to technically proficient hard rock bands, when, if you listen to the music, KISS is WAY closer to The Ramones, New York Dolls, Blondie, Slade, The Rolling Stones and Alice Cooper (With a dash of Zepplin in the riffs, if not the songwriting it's self). Bands that no one would ever compare with Van Halen because it's just totally different worlds.
On the subject it's self, I've already posted about the 80's production values. But I will add (and others can too if so inclined) what I consider to be the best SOUNDING KISS record.
I am a HUGE fan of Unmasked both its songwriting and production. Vinny Poncia did an excellent job of making KISS sound like what I think KISS was supposed to sound like: Energetic and raw Power-pop.
The guitar tones on these records remind me very much of Chris Thomas' work on the multi-layered guitar masterpiece Never mind the Bollocks by the Sex Pistols (2000 Man, Hard Times from Dynasty sounds pretty much identical to The Pistols. Tomorrow/ Is that you? and others from Unmasked could have been put on a Blondie record and no one would know the difference ("Is that you?" is very much like "Rip her to sheds") Interestingly another band accused of not being able to play, who could, and another band no one would compare to Van Halen)
In a way, this helps answer the original posters question. What happened to KISS's sound in the 1980's Van Halen happened.
After their power-pop-new-wave-disco records failed due to the 70's KISS fad ending (Actually, Dynasty was a massive hit, Unmasked was disappointing commercially but not an outright bomb) After their crash coincided with the release of the experimental, Lou-reed collaborated broadway show-ish "Music From The Elder" KISS decided that the only way to stay commercially viable (Now that any genre they had once belonged to was now virtually non-existent, the sands shifted quickly in the early 80's) was to target the Heavey-Metal Genre, which was lead by... guess who? Halen!
The problem is, that a band can only really sound like themselves, no matter what genre they try to align with, and outright heavy-metal, it's songwriting motifs and production values really didn't suite KISS at all.
The guitar tones clashes with the style of songwriting, the mixing of the guitars was not complimentary to KISS's strengths although they were already trying to write differently it just never "Clicked" KISS was a rock n' roll band (A raw, basic NY 70's rock n roll band at that, who would default to their Beatles and Raspberries roots way before they would default to anything like Sabbath or Purple) Thus you had KISS major flaw on display for an entire decade.
The flaw being this, they could not lead themselves musically, they could write and play their songs, but it really took a Bob Ezrin to tell them what KIND of songs and playing suited them, left to their own devices, they would panic and display an underlying musical low self-esteem. They didn't want to end up like the Ramones, New York Dolls or the Dictators. As acclaimed as those bands are, they did not achieve the kind of success KISS prioritized above all else. And they were deathly afraid that if they did not chase whatever was "Current" in music, that they woud end up like those bands (Comercially speaking)
And so for an entire decade, in addition to what I wrote in my last post, you had a band, with no idea what they did and didn't do well, trying to out Van Halen Van Halen, and even though the two bands were friends, it's no secret that those fans they were trying to appeal to, would NEVER get on board with KISS, because looking at them through Van Halen colored lenses, KISS were nowhere near Van Halen and never would be.
It never occurred to KISS that they were completely off course in who they were trying to appeal to. When the make-up came off, and sales returned to "Decent" if not impressive levels, they thought: "AH HA! Were getting warmer!" what they were doing was dooming themselves to a decade of mediocrity, and mediocrity just leads to more of the same, it became habitual. They were surviving, sometimes doing well, but never getting over the hump to anywhere close to what they had been.
I often wonder, if at any point in the 80's if anyone sat Paul and Gene down and PLAYED Rock n' roll over or Destroyer for them, MADE them LISTEN to Dynasty or Unmasked and asked them, "Do you guys not hear the difference? It's not even close to being the same type of music!" Aerosmith is a good example of a band who was in touch with what they did well, even though they did all the 1980's updates, with co/writers and producers Aerosmith ALWAYS sounded like Aerosmith. It's baffling that KISS didn't catch onto that, KISS ran from their 70's sound as if they were terrified of it, Aerosmith OWNED their sound and updated it.
I'm not even an Aerosmith fan, never really liked them much. But their attitude and awareness towards the sound they had created was obvious, AC/DC is another example, they may have updated their sound a little, but they KNEW what AC/DC was supposed to sound and write like.
Sadly, KISS did not have the musical confidence of those two bands, probably because they were measuring themselves by the wrong criteria. Neither AC/DC or Aerosmith were really in the same musical waters as KISS, they were VERY close, but thier IS a difference between the kind of music KISS does well and the music of those two bands.
Never has this been more apparent than when at Johhny Ramone's request (The Ramones had been at the first ever KISS show at Coventry in Queens, Joey Ramone was a huge fan and saw all their local gigs before they went out on tour behind the first record) KISS covered "Do you remember Rock n' Roll Radio?" by The Ramones on the Ramones official tribute record.
The results were heart stopping for any KISS fan, it's a 10 out of 10, 5 stars nuclear detonation that totally blows away the original, and it's a band sounding like god INTENDED them to sound, it's KISS sounding the way KISS used to sound, the way KISS should have ALWAYS sounded, Aerosmith couldn't sound like that, AC/DC couldn't sound like that....and Van Halen......please.
I'm a huge Ramones fan, but I no longer consider "Rock n roll radio" a Ramones song, it was the Ramones gift to KISS, a song written by guys who had been in the crowd of 30 people in the room watching the day KISS was born. A reminder, from people who would know, THIS IS WHAT YOU DO WELL
Did they get the message?
Sort of, Sonic Boom was a huge improvement, (Although the mark was missed in the writing department more often than it was hit) the same can be said of Monster. I chalk this up to Paul Stanley producing the records,
If the rumor is true and we one LAST KISS record (At least with Paul and Gene in the band) coming down the pipe, let's hope the question the Ramones asked KISS before they left this earth isn't forgotten...
...Do you remember Rock n Roll radio?
And let's pray the answer is YES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6SYfguaJtk
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